Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Fri, November 07, 2008

I agree with Ron - you are never going to get rich writing a mill book!

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Wed, November 19, 2008

You are right re research. The Dutch have a 1000 euro prize awarded every other year for new mill writing in Dutch/Flemish, funded and organised by a trust run by TIMS Nederland e Vlanderen. Something similar in the UK might stimulate research; it needs a molinological philanthropist!

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Thu, November 20, 2008

I'd love to get up to the archive. I could probably spend days in there. Biggest problem is time and money, especially in these dark times. A £1000 would help!

I do get to spend the odd Saturday in a local archive, and online research resources have improved.

The book is creeping nearer to publication, inch by inch, although the Mills of Kent is such an enormous task to undertake in such depth.

Watch this space....

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Sat, November 22, 2008

There certainly seems to be little research being undertaken on mills in North West England, at least if there is as North West Mills Group newsletter editor I am not hearing about it.

I came across a reference a couple of years ago to the phrase "pin mill" being used to refer to a postmill at a location in north Cheshire. Has anyone else come across this phrase used in the same context? (as opposed to a water-powered mill making pins)

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Thu, November 27, 2008

This summer, I visited the printing works at Innerleithen in southern Scotland, which was formerly water powered. This had a wheel that could be lifted out of the mill race (or lade, as it would be in Scotland). Does anyone know of any similar wheels in Britain or who installed the one at Innerleithen? Unfortunately, the national Trust for Scotland curator had few details about the water power arrangements at the site.

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Sat, November 29, 2008

The various papers on aspects of mills, particularly windmills and their component parts, written and published by that great authority Rex Wailes indeed provide a huge source of in depth information.

One problem is that that are scattered around various publications, although many are in the Newcomen Journal.

It would surely help new entrants into the Mill field to quickly gain detailed, and generally well accepted information, on windmills and their major components if these papers could be all gathered into one publication.
Has this ever been considered?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Tue, December 09, 2008

Alan Gifford is correct, an overall index of articles and other sources on all aspects of milling that have appeared in various mills group publications and also of organisations such as the Newcommen Society would be of enormous help to all mills researchers and enthusiasts. The obvious problem is who has the time and expertise? A large project, but not impossible. Guy Blythman's British windmill bibliography has given us a start.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Wed, December 10, 2008

We have made a start on such an index at the Mills Archive. Our volunteers are doing two things: firstly combining (with permission) existing indexes such as that prepared by Jim Woodward-Nutt for Mill News and the TIMS index for IM and BM with those for the regional newsletters (such as the Lincolnshire one prepared by Luke Bonwick); secondly we are adding a list of the reprints and photocopies held at the Archive.

This is a massive task and you can search the lists (but not browse them) on the Mills Archive site. The main problem is keeping the index up to date!

If sufficient volunteers would come forward, we could make the list more easily available and set it up in such a way that people could add listings from home and not need to come to Reading.

Posted by Florian Eickmann

Fri, December 19, 2008

Talking about German language research and publications on molinology things seem to be as odd as they are in Britain. Most paperwork we get is not worth being read as it has no technological approach at all or the writers do not seem to have a technical education or experience. Most mill writing is done without even having an understanding of how a mill is (was)operated. Maybe this kind of mill literature is valued by genealogists or maybe those who just enjoy watching a set of turning sails under a blue sky...

To me it seems as if today true scientists doing research into mills would face one big problem, compared to the generation of Rex Wailes: there are almost no "untouched" mills left that would allow field studies. The last millers who have comercially worked a wind or watermill have passed away some ten or twenty years ago. So all we have is archive material that is of little value to those who have never seen a mill itself in unspoiled condition. We can only watch mills through the eyes of those who were behind their cameras in the 1950s or sometimes on plans that show how craftsmen intended the mills they developed to be like in the 1880s... although being of high interest, that material is second hand knowledge only which will never be able to replace the mills themselves who have gone - mostly without proper technical documentation!


Cheers from Germany

Florian Eickmann

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Sun, December 21, 2008

The loss of mills without proper documentation is the main reason we started the Mills Archive. We were set up initially to look after and make available, material from a small number of large collections, but we now care for well over 50 collections and more than 1.5 million records.

Fortunately we still have a small number of experienced traditional millers left working commercial mills (as opposed to museums). Some years ago two of them, James Waterfield and Mildred Cookson, set up the Traditional Cornmillers Guild with Martin Watts,an ex-miller and still a traditional millwright.

It would be interesting to study how these users of our milling heritage make modifications to keep things going. I doubt any mill, even long ago was left "untouched" for too long!

Posted by Florian Eickmann

Mon, December 22, 2008

Ron,

thanks for your your reply! Of course, I was painting things very dark. Apart from some 600 commercial mills serving the 82.000.000 Germans there is quite a number of volunteers who try to keep wind- and watermills running. It is still possible to get professional training and education as a miller and since a couple of years there are also courses for volunteer "millers" to learn about how to maintain and operate a historic mill. So you are right in saying that milling is not all dead.

On the other hand I have seen so many mills disappear or being closed down as a commercial business over the last 25 years in which I have been more or less concearned with that matter. Hundreds of ruins have been either knocked down or "restored" - often with absolutely no respect for the mills themselves and their tradition. It is a fact that by now most traditional mills have been converted into something: museums... volunteer driven mills... holiday homes... fancy restaurants... landmarks. Among a few hundred windmills of northern Germany there is only one that truely continues (and never stopped at any time in the past) to produce flour for small bakeries and animal feed on a commercial basis by wind power. For how long will the miller (being 61 years old) be able to continue his business? Maybe there is going to be a "Mildred" who is going to take over his business after him - for idealistic reasons... but if so, this is truely going to change the appearance of the mill as the main source of income will be showing around tourists instead of marketing flour and feed...

Returning to the archive & publications theme (sorry for getting partially "off topic") - of course, there are true treasures sleeping somewhere and waiting for publication. But with the mills and the millers themselves vanishing there is also a decreased public interest in milling topics. Even in our mill groups and trusts it is very popular to think of the windmill as a landmark only. Four sails under a blue sky... maybe turning once in a while, that's it. The number of those having a deeper insight and interest in the technology of processing grains (not even talking about side topics like oilmilling) is very very small.

This leads to the question: for whom do we keep archives like yours? Some years ago I took part in preserving Germany's largest stock of original hand drawings of mills, milling machines and gears from the famous Wetzig factory at Wittenberg. (See http://www.wetzig-muehlenbauarchiv.de )We managed to collect about 20.000 large drawings along with the original catalogue system from local Wittenberg garbage bins and scanned part of the stock for reproduction.

Although there is material in the archive on a few hundred mills still standing (some of these having their own mill group), there is hardly any interest for copies from the archive. I have wondered a lot why and came to the conclusion that those serving the mills today are simply unable to "read" the plans and to get the idea what is so wonderful about them. What comes on top is that very often, finding drawings or historic pictures as an original source of information means discovering mistakes and misconceptions of those ho restored the mills - of course, this is very unpopular in the "historc milling community".

For me, having seen hundreds or maybe a thousand historic mills, plans and pictures have a high value as I know about in detail what is shown. Sometimes a single picture of a mill's interiour is sufficient to do a mental reconstruction of the entire machine as every rod, every handle and every pipe shown gives me a clue what the mill must have looked like in the parts that are not in the picture. So how will future generations who will have had no chance to visit the mills themselves get so familiar with the scene that they are able to understand the archive material?

All the best for Christmas from Germany

Florian Eickmann

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Wed, January 07, 2009

Florian Eickmann has some interesting points to make. Mills research is a little limited in this country as well, although perhaps there is more "low level" work being undertaken and less of the Rex Wailes style major projects. There are not many "untouched" sites left - and most of them are ruinous - but they are worth hunting out and should be recorded.

A point to bear in mind is that not all of us interested in mills are from a science or technical background (luckily my partner is and she helps me with technical side of things). If we are to promote interest in mills and make people aware of their historical importance, we need to build links with those from other backgrounds. Mills are pieces of applied technology and this must be understood, but mills can also be viewed from a social, economic, geographic and general history contexts (and probably other angles as well), which, when combined, provide a wider understanding of the subject. We must try to be inclusive, not put people off!

Posted by Florian Eickmann

Fri, January 23, 2009

Stuart, this is somehow leading away from the original topic of this thread but anyway - I do not want to put anyone off!

On the other hand I have seen so many 'restored' mills that would have looked much better as a ruin instead of getting too much care from people who have no idea about historic milling.

Let me give you an example:



This is what remains of Blesendorf postmill near Berlin. It collapsed in 1952 but was completely untouched since then when I discovered the ruins in 1990 (picture taken in 1996). Spending time there crawling over the wreck, digging into it, collecting parts and doing what I call 'mental reconstructions' of the mill was absolutely marvellous. A true treasure in molinology!

As the other extreme please, view...

http://www.muehlen-archiv.de/Mv8/4.jpg

Pudagla postmill on the Usedom peninsula before its 'restoration' in 1997 which was replacing truely 100% of the original mill along with applying major changes to the structure. Today the mill appears as shown in this picture:

http://www.usedom-bockwindmuehle-pudagla.de/a1b447687bcefd1c5d3397bdd729cfd0_Muehle_Aussenansicht_3.jpg

I would call it a wooden building with four sails that can eventually destroy grain... but no mill... at least none that shows the typical features of the region.

So looking on that case I would really have loved to put people off that particular mill and let Pudagla go the Blesendorf way so a future generation molinologists might have had the chance to do archaeological research in that place.

Very unpopular point of view, isn't it? But to entertain tourists by erecting a new 'mill' it would not have been necesary to destroy the old one. Believe me, this is not a singular exception - I have seen many sites like this... of course, not all of them as extreme as Pudagla.


Cheers & "Glück zu!" from Germany

Florian Eickmann

Posted by Florian Eickmann

Tue, January 27, 2009

I don't quite get, which posting Derek responds to - but I absolutely aggree with him!

One more thing about the Pudagla postmill topic: in addition to my previous posting I have to clearly point out that I do not blame the 'millwright' who did the job! The problem which lies under the surface is a leck of high quality reasearch and publications (call it industrial archaeology if you like) on objects like this. Funds that help to restore mills mostly don't come from a cultural background but are meant to support infrastructure for tourists in certain regions. So it is obvious that those funding the restoration do not have any particular interest in molinologic research - as long as there are four sails, the mill will attract tourists and thus serve it's purpose - given by the funds.

So - how are things in Britain? Did anyone observe similar cases there?

Cheers from Germany

Florian E.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Wed, January 28, 2009

Whilst I agree with Alan Giffard's point about the use of modern materials to keep old mills going, how do we reconcile this with SPAB Mills Section policy of restoring mills to their last working state? I have been told by Jean Bruggeman that in France ARAM have restored some mills, like Montceau-Encharnant, but taken out their original heavy dead curbs and replaced them with modern shot curbs because that makes the mills easier for volunteer millers to work. He seems to have a point. Mike Beacham

Posted by Florian Eickmann

Wed, January 28, 2009

Mike,

replacing traditional dead curbs by more easily running modern wheels has been a common feature in mill 'restaurations' in north-western Germany (Ostfriesland), too. But in contrast to the French ARAM people our German technicians pointed out that dead curbs would not work any longer because nobody would ever grease them on a regular basis. So very soon fantails would block, they argued, and all the cast iron gears would break very soon.

Maybe they were right... but on the other hand using those very easily running wheels lead to the mill caps shaking from one side to the other by several inches all the time while sails are turning. This results in the cogs of brakewheel and wallower never having the same position to one another... the gears which used to run almost quiet before the mills' restaurations now produce a breathtaking kind of noise. In addition, it is the fantails' gears that have to act as a kind of brake for the entire cap all the time, a purpose most traditional gears will not serve for too long...

The old miller Heinz Wichers of Stapelmoor used to operate his grindstones by windpower until the last day before the 'restoration' of his mill. Now with the cap heavily shaking on the new wheels he is afraid of his cap just sailing away and smashing his next door neighbours' house ... I will not doubt the words of someone who has over sixty years of experience operating his windmill!

In my opinion the way traditional mills have been built was a result of a kind of evolutionary development. Why trying 'new' things if the old ones have proved to be right through working for decades or even centuries??

Best wishes,

Florian Eickmann

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Wed, January 28, 2009

Florian, I am sorry if my fascination with curb structures obscured my point, which is this: if, in the course of restoration or running repairs it makes sense financially and operationally to use a modern material not available to the original millwrights, can that be reconciled to the SPAB policy? I am thinking, to talk curbs again, of, for instance, the replacement of wooden rollers with nylon rollers, as has happened in some Dutch mills. Would anyone from SPAB care to join in? Regards, Mike Beacham

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